Try to win or rebuild?

[Defense5599]

With Ali Marpet now retiring on top of Tom Brady, which direction do you think the Bucs should now take this offseason?

[acmillis]

What should we do? Rebuild, most certainly. But, I'd bet my life that will not happen.

[CupidStunt]

Too much talent on the team to rebuild. Even if the Bucs office wanted to, my gut feeling without looking is that the contracts would have massive salary cap implications this year if they tried to jettison that talent for picks or prospects.

One can take the approach that with the expected 10 million in cap savings once they jiggle Marpet's contract to maybe keep both FA linemen that they were expecting to lose one of. Then whatever plan they had for replacing one of them can try to replace Marpet.

Yeah there are some notable holes, but I've seen various strategies for filling as many as possible then just gameplay around the ones that are left and pray for gems to emerge under pressure, lol.

[Dread]

What does "rebuild" mean in the context of this thread?

Losing Brady and now Marpet sucks and will bring about a new era of Bucs football. But it also removes their financial obligations and provides needed flexibility to potentially keep some others (Godwin, Cappa, Whitehead, etc).

Does "rebuild" suggest we auction off assets like Mike Evans, etc for draft picks and essentially try to suck as bad as possible in 2022 so we can stockpile draft capital and create a bunch of cap space? If so, I want none of that idea.

The last couple of years with Brady was beautiful for Bucs fans. But it's time to move on and for the same reason Brady picked Tampa is the same reason we don't need to 'rebuild' (depending on how people are defining that) and that reason is this is a talented team.

The Bucs had 9 Pro Bowlers in 2021. Brady and Marpet were 2 of them, but it's not as if this roster can't compete, especially looking at the current landscape in the NFCS.

On defense we can bring back almost the same starting 11.

We have alot of holes to fill on offense, but still have a future HoF WR in his prime and one of the best pair of bookend Tackles in the NFL. If we can shore up the interior Oline then we'll have a solid foundation for whoever is QB.

RBs are dime a dozen and the past 3 Super Bowl champs (Chiefs, Bucs, Rams) all ranked in the bottom third of the NFL in both yards per game and yards per attempt/carry in the run game the year they won it all.

[Swashbuckler]

Win. Draft O-Line and D-Line, take the salary left behind with Marpet and use it to figure out the QB situation along with our free agents.

We've still got a few more years. Had Brady not been as old as Moses we'd be talking about it exactly this way

[Kona]

With Arians still here, no way they do a full re-build. We still have a lot of talent on the team, and hopefully we get some guys back to continue to build around. But my expectations aren’t nearly as high for this team, however that doesn’t mean with the right moves we can’t make the playoffs next year.

[Cheb]

I choose try to win, but there are nuances here that I think we should parse out.

I still think the Bucs have the inside lane on winning the division next year, and I think we would be fools to not try to win it. I fully believe this team is capable of making the playoffs; hell, we tied for the best record in the league and are returning many of our starters.

But at the same time, I think would be foolish to leverage future assets away at this juncture. We shouldn't be trading away future first round picks in flashy trades, we shouldn't be pushing cap hits into the future if we can at all avoid it.

While we have a legit chance of making the playoffs, we are going to experience a regression next season. Absorbing the cap pain from the last two seasons of playoff pushing would be wise, because once we have gotten over those dead cap hits and paying our former players to sit on their couches, there's no reason our team can't be on top of our division.

[Big Irv]

Bruce Arians is not a rebuild coach. He’s too old for that. He’s a win now guy. Last 2 years we built the team to minimize cap hit, that has to end this year. Take the lumps and give some young guys a chance to shine, especially on defense.

[Dread]

I choose try to win, but there are nuances here that I think we should parse out.

I still think the Bucs have the inside lane on winning the division next year, and I think we would be fools to not try to win it. I fully believe this team is capable of making the playoffs; hell, we tied for the best record in the league and are returning many of our starters.

But at the same time, I think would be foolish to leverage future assets away at this juncture. We shouldn't be trading away future first round picks in flashy trades, we shouldn't be pushing cap hits into the future if we can at all avoid it.

While we have a legit chance of making the playoffs, we are going to experience a regression next season. Absorbing the cap pain from the last two seasons of playoff pushing would be wise, because once we have gotten over those dead cap hits and paying our former players to sit on their couches, there's no reason our team can't be on top of our division.

I agree. We only pushed cap hits into the future last offseason b/c we were trying to maximize the talent while Brady was here. We definitely don't need to do that this offseason and even 'take our medicine' now to a certain degree in terms of that borrowing from the future we did here in 2022 so that come next offseason our cap situation is in a much healthier shape.

The alternative (which are based on hypothetical trade scenarios we don't control) would be giving up multiple 1st rounders to trade for an expensive QB which would mean little to no ability to re-sign anyone.

I wouldn't hate it if we somehow landed Wilson or Watson as it would make us a contender in 2022 and the near term, but I've never really believed those are very likely scenarios.

[Grahamburn]

Full tank. Try to get in position for Bryce Young or C.J. Stroud. Some great QB prospects coming out in 2023.

[Defense5599]

Full tank. Try to get in position for Bryce Young or C.J. Stroud. Some great QB prospects coming out in 2023.

There's a way to do that without tanking.

[Doctor]

WTF does full rebuild even mean?? It seems like it's just code for "tank for a QB".

[kaimaru]

WTF does full rebuild even mean?? It seems like it's just code for "tank for a QB".

I looked to translate to fanspeak, but Google translator didn't have that option.

[Redrum]

I'd say both. I don't want to trade away all of our good players but I also think we should be responsible towards the future in terms of draft capital and cap space. I would like to see Trask and determine if he can take the reigns. Hainsley should also get a starting job. Start planning out how to sign Winfield, Wirfs, and White long-term. I would like to see them trade down to gain picks for the next draft in case they want to move up for a QB in the event Trask doesn't work out.

[13F11B]

At this point, I would say it is rebuilding time. However, with Arians staying on I think the Buccaneers will be trying to win now. If they truly believed it was a rebuild Arians would have likely retired.

[Doctor]

If we hadn't won gotten Brady not a single person in here would be talking rebuild.
We'd all be like "We're so close, we just need a couple of pieces. Look at what the Rams just did!"

[Defense5599]

If we hadn't won gotten Brady not a single person in here would be talking rebuild.
We'd all be like "We're so close, we just need a couple of pieces. Look at what the Rams just did!"

And they will end up in the same boat as the Bucs within a year or two. You can't keep a good team together forever in this league. Like basic economics, resources won't allow it.

[Sdbucs]

We’re competitive with Rodgers, Wilson, Carr, Watson, possibly others but it’s early and I’m blanking on names. Point is, we get a QB starting for us that’s not named Gabbert, Trask, or Garappolo and we have the talent to make a run.

If we’re stuck with one of those three then we better hope we retain some of our pieces in the following season as we’ll be mediocre this year and I’m sure some talent jumps ship in the 2023 offseason. It would be at that point that the whole rebuilding question becomes more reasonable.

[CannonFire]

Define "Win"?

Does that mean "Win" the division? I mean, we could do that and rebuild at the same time. Being the tallest midget and calling everyone else short, doesn't make the midget not a midget.

Define "Rebuild"?

Does that mean to trade off all of our assets and pack it in?

Our defense is ok. We're going to lose Davis, but we still have a good secondary and great LB's. Our DLine needs to be addressed, but overall, I think we're pretty good. Our offense is in shambles. We have 1 WR of note under contract, no RB's, Brate is our only TE, and Trask is our only QB. There isn't enough money and quality draft picks to address those needs with enough impact players to truly make us a 10+ win team with a shot to win 1 or more playoff games.

I think our ceiling is 8 wins, if I'm being overly optimistic. I mean, has anyone actually looked at our opponents next year? Aside from the division games, our 6 other home games are Baltimore, Green Bay, Cincinnati, Kansas City, LA, & Seattle. Our non-division road opponents are Arizona, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas, & San Francisco. There's a lot of losses in that group. If we sweep our division, the only wins I see are Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I think all the rest are losses. Yes, I believe that Wilson and Rodgers are staying put.

[Primeminister]

I keep reminding myself that we can trust Licht. He built this super bowl winning team whose loss we are mourning. His roster drew the GOAT here. I do not believe we are winning the SB within the next 2 years, but years 3-5 should be competing for a title.

All of this hinges on getting the QB right of course.

[BJJ34]

Honestly, the decision to either pursue Godwin or let him go is this question in a whole.

If we keep him; we have 2 top 10 receivers to compete with any QB trotted out there, and one of them is a top blocking receiver too. If we let him go; well… you saw our receiving corps after he went down. Perriman and Grayson. Evans balls out no matter what.

[Defense5599]

Honestly, the decision to either pursue Godwin or let him go is this question in a whole.

If we keep him; we have 2 top 10 receivers to compete with any QB trotted out there, and one of them is a top blocking receiver too. If we let him go; well… you saw our receiving corps after he went down. Perriman and Grayson. Evans balls out no matter what.

I seriously doubt we can afford to keep Godwin. If we find a way to do it, then say goodbye to Whitehead and CDIII.

[BJJ34]

Honestly, the decision to either pursue Godwin or let him go is this question in a whole.

If we keep him; we have 2 top 10 receivers to compete with any QB trotted out there, and one of them is a top blocking receiver too. If we let him go; well… you saw our receiving corps after he went down. Perriman and Grayson. Evans balls out no matter what.

I seriously doubt we can afford to keep Godwin. If we find a way to do it, then say goodbye to Whitehead and CDIII.

Whitehead is easier to replace than Godwin. CD3… i’m not so sure about that.

[bucarican]

Why is this even a question???? We have built via the draft and FA for years, with the exception of the QB this team can still compete. Some of you have loved the losing season, you guys are hoping to go back, not me.

[Defense5599]

I seriously doubt we can afford to keep Godwin. If we find a way to do it, then say goodbye to Whitehead and CDIII.

Whitehead is easier to replace than Godwin. CD3… i’m not so sure about that.

But Godwin will cost WAY more. We can't afford to give him a Mike Evans type contract.

[uscbucsfan]

Whitehead is easier to replace than Godwin. CD3… i’m not so sure about that.

But Godwin will cost WAY more. We can't afford to give him a Mike Evans type contract.

We absolutely can, but it's a question of whether or not we think it's worth the impact to the rest of the roster and the future.

[BJJ34]

But Godwin will cost WAY more. We can't afford to give him a Mike Evans type contract.

We absolutely can, but it's a question of whether or not we think it's worth the impact to the rest of the roster and the future.

I would argue Godwin is a Cooper Kupp-esque player. Before his injury he was catching 12 balls a game it felt like.

[kaimaru]

We absolutely can, but it's a question of whether or not we think it's worth the impact to the rest of the roster and the future.

I would argue Godwin is a Cooper Kupp-esque player. Before his injury he was catching 12 balls a game it felt like.

Cooper Kupp does that in double and triple coverage. No way the same player.

[kaimaru]

I guess none of you want an Oline.

Savvy.

On the plus side, Licht said Jensen was a priority.

[BJJ34]

I would argue Godwin is a Cooper Kupp-esque player. Before his injury he was catching 12 balls a game it felt like.

Cooper Kupp does that in double and triple coverage. No way the same player.

Godwin gets attention, but has ME on the other side too. Godwin’s biggest contribution, not often talked about, is his physical toughness that spreads around the building. Losing him is losing one hell of a football player. If this was Basketball, a sign and trade would be useful. Unfortunately, not though.

Godwin is also twice the blocker of most guys in the league.

I would rather die on the hill of having 2 of the best receivers in the league on the roster then losing one and using the money on an OL who is getting overpaid in free agency because of a need. I’m a fan of drafting linemen(it’s worked so far, no?). We tried the route of bringing in expensive guys outside of Tom Brady in the past and it failed miserably.

This draft is deeper in certain spots than others. Receiver isn’t really one from my understanding.

[MJW]

I choose try to win, but there are nuances here that I think we should parse out.

I still think the Bucs have the inside lane on winning the division next year, and I think we would be fools to not try to win it. I fully believe this team is capable of making the playoffs; hell, we tied for the best record in the league and are returning many of our starters.

But at the same time, I think would be foolish to leverage future assets away at this juncture. We shouldn't be trading away future first round picks in flashy trades, we shouldn't be pushing cap hits into the future if we can at all avoid it.

While we have a legit chance of making the playoffs, we are going to experience a regression next season. Absorbing the cap pain from the last two seasons of playoff pushing would be wise, because once we have gotten over those dead cap hits and paying our former players to sit on their couches, there's no reason our team can't be on top of our division.

IMHO, if we go "all in" to win, we'll win the division and get thumped in the playoffs. There are simply too many holes and poor depth.
By the same token, if we build future assets instead, we'll probably STILL win the division and get thumped in the playoffs. Our division is bad right now.

You show me a 12 win team that isn't good enough to win the conference and a 9 win team that isn't good enough to win the conference, I'll tell you I'm looking at the same picture. The goal is not to make the playoffs. In the cold light of day, OBP has to look at this roster and realize it's not Superbowl worthy and with little cap room and 6 draft picks (none until #27), we're not going to make it Superbowl worthy this offseason.

Frankly, if BA wasn't 70 and seemingly disinterested with a proper rebuild, we're not even having this discussion right now. We'd see this situation for what it is. Brady opened the window for 2 years. We won a ring and made a fine push for another. Now it's over.

[Defense5599]

I choose try to win, but there are nuances here that I think we should parse out.

I still think the Bucs have the inside lane on winning the division next year, and I think we would be fools to not try to win it. I fully believe this team is capable of making the playoffs; hell, we tied for the best record in the league and are returning many of our starters.

But at the same time, I think would be foolish to leverage future assets away at this juncture. We shouldn't be trading away future first round picks in flashy trades, we shouldn't be pushing cap hits into the future if we can at all avoid it.

While we have a legit chance of making the playoffs, we are going to experience a regression next season. Absorbing the cap pain from the last two seasons of playoff pushing would be wise, because once we have gotten over those dead cap hits and paying our former players to sit on their couches, there's no reason our team can't be on top of our division.

IMHO, if we go "all in" to win, we'll win the division and get thumped in the playoffs. There are simply too many holes and poor depth.
By the same token, if we build future assets instead, we'll probably STILL win the division and get thumped in the playoffs. Our division is bad right now.

You show me a 12 win team that isn't good enough to win the conference and a 9 win team that isn't good enough to win the conference, I'll tell you I'm looking at the same picture. The goal is not to make the playoffs. In the cold light of day, OBP has to look at this roster and realize it's not Superbowl worthy and with little cap room and 6 draft picks (none until #27), we're not going to make it Superbowl worthy this offseason.

Frankly, if BA wasn't 70 and seemingly disinterested with a proper rebuild, we're not even having this discussion right now. We'd see this situation for what it is. Brady opened the window for 2 years. We won a ring and made a fine push for another. Now it's over.

This is what I'm leaning towards. This team is capped out and has 20 key guys unsigned. No way they are going to be able to bring them back. Having the greatest QB that ever lived on this team for two years made for a lot of fine moments that provided a welcome relief from all the years of suckitude. We mortgaged the future in the process. Now the piper has come to collect. We need to pay up and see what happens. Keep Evans, Vea, AWJ and Wirfs around as key pieces, and let Trask have at it. If he proves not to be the guy, time to stockpile picks to draft a stud QB in 2023. And there are some good ones out there.

[Grahamburn]

Full tank. Try to get in position for Bryce Young or C.J. Stroud. Some great QB prospects coming out in 2023.

There's a way to do that without tanking.

What would that be?

[Defense5599]

There's a way to do that without tanking.

What would that be?

Stockpile picks to trade up

[Grahamburn]

What would that be?

Stockpile picks to trade up

With what? Magic beans?