2024 Coach hot seat

[CannonFire]

Something tells me that Daboll is safe and will have a chance in the off-season to draft a QB. There's a lot of people, players, and management up in the NY/NJ area that really like Daboll and think he's the right guy for the job.

One has to wonder where that confidence comes from because it's certainly doesn't come from winning.

I think it comes from seeing that the game plan and preparation work... but the execution (mainly because of the crappy QB), doesn't. Jones is really, really, really bad.

[Grahamburn]

That's white coach confidence.

What does this mean?

[Bootz]

One has to wonder where that confidence comes from because it's certainly doesn't come from winning.

I think it comes from seeing that the game plan and preparation work... but the execution (mainly because of the crappy QB), doesn't. Jones is really, really, really bad.

Daboll put his eggs in the Daniel Jones basket to the point @Snake and @Grahamburn made.

Keep in mind, Daboll could've moved on from Jones after the 2022 season. He was a FA. But instead the organization signed him to a $40mil/year deal. If he truly did not want Jones as his QB that would've been the time to make a decision. He didn't. So here we are.

[GreatTimes]

That's white coach confidence.

What does this mean?

I think he meant the coaches confidence in RB White. But I could be wrong.

[CannonFire]

I think it comes from seeing that the game plan and preparation work... but the execution (mainly because of the crappy QB), doesn't. Jones is really, really, really bad.

Daboll put his eggs in the Daniel Jones basket to the point @Snake and @Grahamburn made.

Keep in mind, Daboll could've moved on from Jones after the 2022 season. He was a FA. But instead the organization signed him to a $40mil/year deal. If he truly did not want Jones as his QB that would've been the time to make a decision. He didn't. So here we are.

How do we know that he did (or didn't, for that matter), want to move on from Jones? We don't know what happened behind the scenes.

The Giants did the same thing the Bucs did. They kept a guy because "WhO eLsE aRe YoU gOiNg To GeT", when in retrospect, they shouldn't have. In fairness, we saw that the results 2022 season were promising. Then, the following year, he tore his ACL and hasn't looked like he did in 2022. Injuries change players. I know that may seem foreign to some, but it's true. Me, personally, I never believed in Jones... but that doesn't mean I was right. It's possible that the organization sees Jones' play to be different after his injury and realize that it's time to move on from him, but not Daboll. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have. I mean, anyone can see that Jones was much better in 2022 than he was before... and after. People here want to crown Mayfield, but truth is, by most metrics, Daniel Jones' 2022 season was better than Mayfield's 2023.

Nabers appears to be a good WR, this Tracy kid looks to be pretty solid as well. Drafting a QB and adding some more beef to the OLine may make them a top 10 offense as early as next year. Last year, their defense was 26th in points against, the playoff year, they were 17th... this year they're 14th. Even with yards as a metric... last year, they were 27th (25th the playoff year), this year they're 17th. There's definitely improvement on the team. Why would someone want to throw away progress from most aspects of the team when it looks like 1 position change is all that's needed?

[Grahamburn]

What does this mean?

I think he meant the coaches confidence in RB White. But I could be wrong.

Well, Doctor doesn't quote the posts he replies to, so it makes things difficult sometimes to interpret his point. However, in this case I think he's saying that because Daboll is of white descent he's getting the benefit of the doubt, but because Bowles is black he's not.

I just wish he'd say it.

[Bootz]

Daboll put his eggs in the Daniel Jones basket to the point @Snake and @Grahamburn made.

Keep in mind, Daboll could've moved on from Jones after the 2022 season. He was a FA. But instead the organization signed him to a $40mil/year deal. If he truly did not want Jones as his QB that would've been the time to make a decision. He didn't. So here we are.

How do we know that he did (or didn't, for that matter), want to move on from Jones? We don't know what happened behind the scenes.

The Giants did the same thing the Bucs did. They kept a guy because "WhO eLsE aRe YoU gOiNg To GeT", when in retrospect, they shouldn't have. In fairness, we saw that the results 2022 season were promising. Then, the following year, he tore his ACL and hasn't looked like he did in 2022. Injuries change players. I know that may seem foreign to some, but it's true. Me, personally, I never believed in Jones... but that doesn't mean I was right. It's possible that the organization sees Jones' play to be different after his injury and realize that it's time to move on from him, but not Daboll. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have. I mean, anyone can see that Jones was much better in 2022 than he was before... and after. People here want to crown Mayfield, but truth is, by most metrics, Daniel Jones' 2022 season was better than Mayfield's 2023.

Nabers appears to be a good WR, this Tracy kid looks to be pretty solid as well. Drafting a QB and adding some more beef to the OLine may make them a top 10 offense as early as next year. Last year, their defense was 26th in points against, the playoff year, they were 17th... this year they're 14th. Even with yards as a metric... last year, they were 27th (25th the playoff year), this year they're 17th. There's definitely improvement on the team. Why would someone want to throw away progress from most aspects of the team when it looks like 1 position change is all that's needed?

You can't have it both ways. Can't say an organization feels Daboll is the right guy for the job while also saying they purposely underminded him and don't value his input on player personnel. Specifically the most important position on the field.

[Bootz]

I think he meant the coaches confidence in RB White. But I could be wrong.

Well, Doctor doesn't quote the posts he replies to, so it makes things difficult sometimes to interpret his point. However, in this case I think he's saying that because Daboll is of white descent he's getting the benefit of the doubt, but because Bowles is black he's not.

I just wish he'd say it.

He's purposely vague for a reason. It's part of the gimmick. Create an air of uncertainty so it appears you know what you're talking about.

[MRM]

Daboll is a good OC. Not sure about being a good head coach.

I guess Allen will be gone at New Orleans. Aside from QB injuries, his defense sucks and he's a defensive guy.

[CannonFire]

How do we know that he did (or didn't, for that matter), want to move on from Jones? We don't know what happened behind the scenes.

The Giants did the same thing the Bucs did. They kept a guy because "WhO eLsE aRe YoU gOiNg To GeT", when in retrospect, they shouldn't have. In fairness, we saw that the results 2022 season were promising. Then, the following year, he tore his ACL and hasn't looked like he did in 2022. Injuries change players. I know that may seem foreign to some, but it's true. Me, personally, I never believed in Jones... but that doesn't mean I was right. It's possible that the organization sees Jones' play to be different after his injury and realize that it's time to move on from him, but not Daboll. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have. I mean, anyone can see that Jones was much better in 2022 than he was before... and after. People here want to crown Mayfield, but truth is, by most metrics, Daniel Jones' 2022 season was better than Mayfield's 2023.

Nabers appears to be a good WR, this Tracy kid looks to be pretty solid as well. Drafting a QB and adding some more beef to the OLine may make them a top 10 offense as early as next year. Last year, their defense was 26th in points against, the playoff year, they were 17th... this year they're 14th. Even with yards as a metric... last year, they were 27th (25th the playoff year), this year they're 17th. There's definitely improvement on the team. Why would someone want to throw away progress from most aspects of the team when it looks like 1 position change is all that's needed?

You can't have it both ways. Can't say an organization feels Daboll is the right guy for the job while also saying they purposely underminded him and don't value his input on player personnel. Specifically the most important position on the field.

Who's trying to have what both ways? Who said anything about undermining him? I said we don't know what happened behind the scenes... and we don't. We don't know who said what about Jones, following the 2022 season. What we do know is that Jones had the best year of his career in 2022, had an injury in 2023, and really hasn't looked the same since. At the time, the signing was reasonable (keep in mind, this isn't my feelings, it's what I hear from fans, radio hosts, and beat reporters on the radio. In my opinion, they screwed up just like the Bucs). I'm thinking that many people here (Baker fans in particular), would agree with that.

[Snake]

Signing Jones to that contract is insane now, and was insane then. If Daboll is a supposed offensive genius QB guru, he should’ve been jumping on the table trying to stop that deal.

Most people on this forum were saying it was a horrendous deal immediately.

One playoff win and they crowned his ass.

[CannonFire]

Signing Jones to that contract is insane now, and was insane then. If Daboll is a supposed offensive genius QB guru, he should’ve been jumping on the table trying to stop that deal.

Most people on this forum were saying it was a horrendous deal immediately.

One playoff win and they crowned his ass.

I agree with you. The thing is, it doesn't appear that the team does.

[Bootz]

Signing Jones to that contract is insane now, and was insane then. If Daboll is a supposed offensive genius QB guru, he should’ve been jumping on the table trying to stop that deal.

Most people on this forum were saying it was a horrendous deal immediately.

One playoff win and they crowned his ass.

I agree with you. The thing is, it doesn't appear that the team does.

And that includes Daboll. Now you see why it's ridiculous to say he'll get to have his pick of QB next offseason when he made his pick after 2022. And if your position is that he didn't have a part in that process then what makes you think the Giants would've value his opinion on the next QB?

Like I said, can't have it both ways.

[CannonFire]

I agree with you. The thing is, it doesn't appear that the team does.

And that includes Daboll. Now you see why it's ridiculous to say he'll get to have his pick of QB next offseason when he made his pick after 2022. And if your position is that he didn't have a part in that process then what makes you think the Giants would've value his opinion on the next QB?

Like I said, can't have it both ways.

I believe you're conflating what I think and what they seemingly think. All I said is that WE as fans, have no idea what happened behind closed doors. Do YOU know what happened in their meetings? If you do, I think it would shed more light on the situation. I don't know that Daboll said, "Yes, Jones is a future stud and we need to pay him a boatload of money." We do know that AFTER the signing, he was towing the company line. I mean, wouldn't everyone in that situation? Or do you think every other first time HC would just quit after one year because he was forced to keep the QB they had?

For arguments sake, lets say that Daboll fully endorsed Jones and the signing. Fine, well, what I'm hearing up here from the locals (by that I mean the beat writers, radio/tv hosts, and fans), is that the Giants organization believes they hired the right HC and that if he needs to go get a new QB, they're ok with that. There's no having anything both ways. The team apparently believes they made the right decision at the time, by giving Jones that deal. They also apparently believe that the injury is the biggest reason why he isn't progressing. Why? Because one of the things that lead to Jones' good year in 2022 was his ability to run. You're going to look at his passing numbers and say "Wuhhh?" So would everyone else. But if you look at his 2022 season, you'll notice it was better overall than Josh Allen's second season before they got him a real WR to throw to. Compare the two... Jones completed 67%, threw for 3200 yards with 15 TD's, 5 Int's, a passer rating of 92.5 and QBR of 62.9. In Josh Allen's second season, he completed 59% of his passes for 3100 yards, 20 TD's, 9 Int's, a passer rating of 85.3 and QBR of 49.4. In 2022, Daniel Jones ran 120 times for over 700 yards and 7 TDs. Right now, he's on pace for 113 rush attempts for 393 yards and 0 TD's. That's significant. I think most would think that a person who tore his ACL 12 months ago might have that issue.

Here's MY opinion. I think the Giants screwed up by giving Jones a new deal like they did. I thought that then, I think that now. I also think, as a whole, that team is better than what it was since Daboll and Schoen have taken over, aside from Jones. If the Giants organization, as a whole believe in the coaching staff, I see no reason to fire anyone when they can just go and get a new QB. Here's the kicker, I don't even know if they plan of moving on from Jones. They may give him next year as he'll be a full year removed from his ACL injury.

What I would've done in the offseason, was sign a guy like Dalton or Flacco to start the first half of the season and see how it goes. At that point, after being 12 months removed from the ACL injury, bring Jones back in if the team is floundering. They chose not to take that route.

[CannonFire]

@Bootz @Snake, let's keep in mind that the Bucs did the exact same thing with Mayfield that the Giants did with Jones. Also keep in mind that the Giants didn't win a weak division and went on the road to beat the overall #1 seed.

[Grahamburn]

The Giants were similarly stuck between a rock and a hard place with the QB in 2022 just like the Bucs were after 2023. The previous regime decided not to pick up Jones' 5th year option, correct? Schoen/Daboll took over the team for the 2022 season. That decision was made prior to them being there.

Jones was a free agent going into 2023. They made the playoffs and didn't have a high pick. They should have franchised him and scapegoated the previous GM for screwing up the 5th year option aspect. However, the contract they gave him wasn't too incredibly crazy considering the franchise tag number for a QB in 2023 was $32M and there's no guarantee he signs it or plays on it. Then what? Jones held their feet to the fire and they caved. They can get out of the deal after this year.

Glad they weren't smart enough to sign Mayfield for $8M.

[Grahamburn]

@Bootz @Snake, let's keep in mind that the Bucs did the exact same thing with Mayfield that the Giants did with Jones. Also keep in mind that the Giants didn't win a weak division and went on the road to beat the overall #1 seed.

And he played extremely well in that playoff game.

[CannonFire]

The Giants were similarly stuck between a rock and a hard place with the QB in 2022 just like the Bucs were after 2023. The previous regime decided not to pick up Jones' 5th year option, correct? Schoen/Daboll took over the team for the 2022 season. That decision was made prior to them being there.

Jones was a free agent going into 2023. They made the playoffs and didn't have a high pick. They should have franchised him and scapegoated the previous GM for screwing up the 5th year option aspect. However, the contract they gave him wasn't too incredibly crazy considering the franchise tag number for a QB in 2023 was $32M and there's no guarantee he signs it or plays on it. Then what? Jones held their feet to the fire and they caved. They can get out of the deal after this year.

Glad they weren't smart enough to sign Mayfield for $8M.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it went down. To me, anyone who thinks the Bucs were right in their decision to re-sign Mayfield, you should believe the same about the Giants as the situations were virtually identical. I'm the same... just the opposite. I think both were wrong. Well, wrong in the contract structure. I'd have given both half the money they got.

[Four Verticals]

The Mayfield deal isn't all that much of a problem for the Bucs. The Jones deal is a big issue for the Giants.

[Grahamburn]

The Mayfield deal isn't all that much of a problem for the Bucs. The Jones deal is a big issue for the Giants.

They’re out of it after this year if they want to be.

2024 Baker is outplaying Jones by like a million miles too. So there’s that.

[Bootz]

The Mayfield deal isn't all that much of a problem for the Bucs. The Jones deal is a big issue for the Giants.

They’re out of it after this year if they want to be.

2024 Baker is outplaying Jones by like a million miles too. So there’s that.

I think with the exception of Anthony Richardson EVERY QB is outplayed Daniel Jones.

[Selmon Rules]

My understanding of it is that Jones had a good year in 22 and looked as though he was ascending and the future looked bright so they signed him to the contract they signed him to. Turns out he had a good season and regressed pretty drastically due to injury or just not being good.

Most teams would go with what seemed like a solid QB and paid him.

Teams have been getting this wrong for decades but some of them did make the right choice by sticking with the QB they had.

Do I blame Dabol? Not really, I wasn't privy to the discussion that was had

[Phantom]

Breaking: The New Orleans Saints have fired head coach Dennis Allen, sources tell Adam Schefter

Whoever takes over coaching duties for the Saints next season will have their work cut out for them.

Annd we are still stuck with boring Todd Bowles

[MRM]

Who's next: Daboll, Pederson, McCarthy?

[Phantom]

Who's next: Daboll, Pederson, McCarthy?

McCarthy most likely

I am so confident that Bill Belichick will become the Cowboys coach next.year


But seriously: Daboli

[Doctor]

BB hires Klint Kubiak to work with Dak and CeeDee. Draft Ashton Jeanty.

[Doctor]

Um, Cam Ward is the #1 pick.

This take is simmering nicely.

[Central_Buc]

Um, Cam Ward is the #1 pick.

This take is simmering nicely.

He's going to the Saints isn't he

[Doctor]

Giants

[GreatTimes]

Who's next: Daboll, Pederson, McCarthy?

McCarthy most likely

I am so confident that Bill Belichick will become the Cowboys coach next.year


But seriously: Daboli

Jerry Jones doesn't want anyone who will take the limelight off of Jerry Jones.

[BJJ34]

Why does everyone assume Belichek is going to leave his comfy media gig. He gets to be himself for the first time in 40 years. He’s dating a young girl. He appears on all kinds of programs, gets to follow college football, and still be a part of any organization that will listen. Bill loves the game. He can better enhance his ability to love the game by being a Media Personality. If any job opens up he’ll take; it’d be unlikely. He looks so happy appearing on the McAfee show every Monday.

[CannonFire]

The Mayfield deal isn't all that much of a problem for the Bucs. The Jones deal is a big issue for the Giants.

No so sure about that. If the Giants release Jones after the season, he's a $3M cap hit and that's 24 months after signing him. If the Bucs release Mayfield after the 2025 season (2 year after the new deal), we have at least $17M in voidable money we have to absorb.

Even if you say, well, we won't release Mayfield... we'll still have to give him a new deal to avoid paying that $17M and kicking the can further down the road.


I know a lot of people don't see this, but there's a very real chance that Daniel Jones is the Giants QB next year. He tore his ACL last year and this is his recovery year, so to speak. From what I hear, there aren't really any detractors in the Giants organization when it comes to Daniel Jones. From the Giants perspective, they only have a few needs and they feel that if Jones returns to pre-injury 2022 form, they'll compete for the division next year. Now, there's still 8 more games to go, and anything can happen. It's possible that at the end of the season they re-evaluate and think moving on is the best decision.

[CannonFire]

Breaking: The New Orleans Saints have fired head coach Dennis Allen, sources tell Adam Schefter

Whoever takes over coaching duties for the Saints next season will have their work cut out for them.

Annd we are still stuck with boring Todd Bowles

If the Saints are smart, the clean house in the offseason. Trade everyone with big money due now and take the cap hit all this year. Play with a college team for 2025 and start fresh is 2026 with the #1 draft pick. They'll probably be top 3 to 5 this year. I'd trade down and acquire as many 2026 draft picks as possible.

[Phantom]

If Jerry Jones wants to win the Super Bowl then Bill Belichick is the man to do it.

[Phantom]

Breaking: The New Orleans Saints have fired head coach Dennis Allen, sources tell Adam Schefter

Whoever takes over coaching duties for the Saints next season will have their work cut out for them.

Annd we are still stuck with boring Todd Bowles

If the Saints are smart, the clean house in the offseason. Trade everyone with big money due now and take the cap hit all this year. Play with a college team for 2025 and start fresh is 2026 with the #1 draft pick. They'll probably be top 3 to 5 this year. I'd trade down and acquire as many 2026 draft picks as possible.

Oh i think they will. Derek Carr's contract was dumb tho