Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Backside]

The narrative of a 30 year old QB is not rewritten, it is still being written.

Everything he was and wasn’t in Cleveland, and while he bounced around the league happened and is part of his story. As is everything he is doing in Tampa and will continue to do (good or bad). The issue is people who decided the narrative was written and fully completed before he even got to Tampa. He is and always will be what he was at all his prior stops to these people. Him finding a home and playing the best football of his career has no bearing on people’s opinion of him as a QB and doesn’t get to be part of his ongoing narrative?

That doesn’t fly for me.

[Central_Buc]

.001% Baker has a terrible year, Bucs go 0-16. Heads roll, then draft Arch Manning.

Oh

Welcome Baker Mayfield

[CannonFire]

Teams had similar outcomes, meaning the QB didn't matter as much as the team did. Rendering the point, dead on.

Teams win in different ways. How did the Bucs win?

The Bucs lost 7 games in 2024. Average ppg against in those losses was 30.42.

Is this time number 11, 12, I've lost count by now as how many times you prove my point, but still don't get it.

Yes, I know teams win in different way, I've made that point many times. It's why I keep saying that the team for most QB's are more important than the QB. It's also why I keep saying that you're better off paying the surrounding talent than the QB in those situations. You're still not going to get that though (I wonder if you'll get it when I put it in bigger text... I'm willing to bet "No").


Here's a list of teams that gave up 30 ppg in losses, last year....
Detroit Lions 34.00
Kansas City Chiefs 34.00
Cincinnati Bengals 33.88
Carolina Panthers 33.75
Dallas Cowboys 33.50
Seattle Seahawks 31.57
Buffalo Bills 31.25
Washington Commanders 31.00
Minnesota Vikings 30.67
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 30.43
Philadelphia Eagles 30.33

Out of those 11 teams, 8 had just as many losses as us, or less. What's the point you're making? Is this your justification that teams win in different ways? I mean, again, yeah... I KNOW - re-read what I just put in the prior paragraph.

[CannonFire]

draft Arch Manning.

I don't know what to make of him yet. Have you been watching or paying attention? I saw a video a while back about his time in high school. Their point seemed to be that as he got older, his team actually got better, but he performed worse. Has he been doing well when he has a chance to play... better than what Ewers was doing?

[CannonFire]

Sure, if he actually does it... because the information changed. I mean, last year he only had 1 WR missed 9 games and the another miss 3. If that's you're definition of "heavily injured", then I'm sorry, you'll have to do better.

If Baker can do that here though, how come he couldn't do that in Cleveland or Carolina?

Lmao it’s painfully obvious you’ll just adjust your criteria enough to never give him any credit no matter what. Yea losing a top WR in the game for the season is a big deal, we had terrible replacement tackles playing in games. Evans was out and then banged up. Otton went down. There were plenty of injuries. He forced OT in Arrowhead with no starting WRs and backup TEs but that’s still just him getting carried by the team I guess.

Why should I or anyone else care what he did in Cleveland or Carolina? I’m much more interested in what he does in Tampa Bay. Last year going in everyone said our roster was mid, as soon as the offense looked great behind a QB who was playing great your ilk decided the roster was actually amazing and carrying the QB.

You make it seem like other teams don't or didn't go through that... like we were the only one. That's why your argument is absurd.

Let's accept your premise though... in those games where Godwin and Evans were out... what was our record? What was our record when Goedeke was out? What was our record when Otton was out? Combined, we were 3-5. So, tell me again why scoring a lot of points in games that we were mostly losing, is different from the Jameis Winston era? I'll hang up and listen.

[Backside]

Lmao it’s painfully obvious you’ll just adjust your criteria enough to never give him any credit no matter what. Yea losing a top WR in the game for the season is a big deal, we had terrible replacement tackles playing in games. Evans was out and then banged up. Otton went down. There were plenty of injuries. He forced OT in Arrowhead with no starting WRs and backup TEs but that’s still just him getting carried by the team I guess.

Why should I or anyone else care what he did in Cleveland or Carolina? I’m much more interested in what he does in Tampa Bay. Last year going in everyone said our roster was mid, as soon as the offense looked great behind a QB who was playing great your ilk decided the roster was actually amazing and carrying the QB.

You make it seem like other teams don't or didn't go through that... like we were the only one. That's why your argument is absurd.

Let's accept your premise though... in those games where Godwin and Evans were out... what was our record? What was our record when Goedeke was out? What was our record when Otton was out? Combined, we were 3-5. So, tell me again why scoring a lot of points in games that we were mostly losing, is different from the Jameis Winston era? I'll hang up and listen.

So Baker is getting carried by the team around him but he is also blamed for losses when he ties the game up and never touches it in OT (or in SF when the defense lets them march right down the field for the game winning field goal)? Do you find that to be a fair way to do analysis?

Do you think Baker played badly in most of those games? For the guy who watches the games you seem rely on incredibly basic stats more than anything.

[Grahamburn]

Teams win in different ways. How did the Bucs win?

The Bucs lost 7 games in 2024. Average ppg against in those losses was 30.42.

Is this time number 11, 12, I've lost count by now as how many times you prove my point, but still don't get it.

Yes, I know teams win in different way, I've made that point many times. It's why I keep saying that the team for most QB's are more important than the QB. It's also why I keep saying that you're better off paying the surrounding talent than the QB in those situations. You're still not going to get that though (I wonder if you'll get it when I put it in bigger text... I'm willing to bet "No").


Here's a list of teams that gave up 30 ppg in losses, last year....
Detroit Lions 34.00
Kansas City Chiefs 34.00
Cincinnati Bengals 33.88
Carolina Panthers 33.75
Dallas Cowboys 33.50
Seattle Seahawks 31.57
Buffalo Bills 31.25
Washington Commanders 31.00
Minnesota Vikings 30.67
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 30.43
Philadelphia Eagles 30.33

Out of those 11 teams, 8 had just as many losses as us, or less. What's the point you're making? Is this your justification that teams win in different ways? I mean, again, yeah... I KNOW - re-read what I just put in the prior paragraph.

Yea, I guess I don't get it? If your point is just that putting better players around the QB (any QB) makes the whole team better then you're just really bad at articulating it and there's no real reason to make such a point. Everyone knows that.

We were discussing the Steelers, I thought? Because they had the same amount of wins as the Bucs. The difference and point being the Bucs won games with their offense and the Steelers won with their defense. Arguing that Fields/Wilson = Baker Mayfield because the teams accounted for the same amount of wins, and therefore the Steelers QB situation is better because they paid them less money, is just flat out dumb.

Do you account the same way for a defensive player or just QBs? TJ Watt = YaYa Diaby so our EDGE rush situation is better than the Steelers because we pay YaYa less... See how fucking stupid that looks?

There's a reason they dumped both those QBs and we signed Reddick, and it's not because Baker Mayfield is the problem.

[Backside]

Remember when Bucs had lost the lead and all momentum in Detroit and Baker totally took over and led the biggest TD drive of the day and got the W?

Remember when he held off Joey Bosa for multiple seconds and found a way to convert a fourth down on the last drive of a game that he was losing?

Remember during the most difficult stretch of the season when injuries were at their worst and he went into Arrowhead and had a great game with all of the backups? Forcing OT before he never seeing the ball again?

The Atlanta game that was won multiple times before an awful fumble, a worse no call, and swiss cheese defense lost it in OT before the offense had a chance?

Easy ones off the top of my head. And yea I can also say that the defense made a huge play in OT of the Panthers game to get that win when the offense wasn’t great, or how bad they looked in the first half of game 17 with the playoffs on the line. I have no issue calling it like it is, good or bad. But also find it weird when Bucs fans refuse to give their QB an ounce of credit for playing the position really damn well. You can make the point that you don’t want to give him a massive contract without also diminishing every single thing he does well for the team you supposedly root for. It’s not that complicated.

[Grahamburn]

:30 second drive in Carolina to tie the game

Dime to McMillan on 4th down against the Saints and then another TD dime against the Saints after BS personal fouls on the previous play

[Sdbucs]

Haven't really kept up with this thread but I'm in disbelief if people are unhappy with Baker's 2024 season.

2023 he was average and showed both upside and downside.
2024 he played at an elevated level and led this team to success.

I see no reason why he can't continue to build off this in 2025.

[CannonFire]

Haven't really kept up with this thread but I'm in disbelief if people are unhappy with Baker's 2024 season.

2023 he was average and showed both upside and downside.
2024 he played at an elevated level and led this team to success.

I see no reason why he can't continue to build off this in 2025.

That's because no one is unhappy with his 2024 season. We just see a different reason for the elevated play in 2024. Some think it was Mayfield "just because", others think it's because his supporting cast was better and the net result was that he had a better year.

I don't either. His offense got an upgrade with Egbuka.

[Backside]

That “just because” is ‘just because’ he played quarterback at an elite level for the majority of the season, based on any metric you want to use.

[Bootz]

Remember when Bucs had lost the lead and all momentum in Detroit and Baker totally took over and led the biggest TD drive of the day and got the W?

Remember when he held off Joey Bosa for multiple seconds and found a way to convert a fourth down on the last drive of a game that he was losing?

Remember during the most difficult stretch of the season when injuries were at their worst and he went into Arrowhead and had a great game with all of the backups? Forcing OT before he never seeing the ball again?

The Atlanta game that was won multiple times before an awful fumble, a worse no call, and swiss cheese defense lost it in OT before the offense had a chance?

Easy ones off the top of my head. And yea I can also say that the defense made a huge play in OT of the Panthers game to get that win when the offense wasn’t great, or how bad they looked in the first half of game 17 with the playoffs on the line. I have no issue calling it like it is, good or bad. But also find it weird when Bucs fans refuse to give their QB an ounce of credit for playing the position really damn well. You can make the point that you don’t want to give him a massive contract without also diminishing every single thing he does well for the team you supposedly root for. It’s not that complicated.

A good portion of this never happened. Especially the Joey Bosa stuff. We killed the Chargers in the 2nd half.

[Bootz]

Remember when Bucs had lost the lead and all momentum in Detroit and Baker totally took over and led the biggest TD drive of the day and got the W?

Remember when he held off Joey Bosa for multiple seconds and found a way to convert a fourth down on the last drive of a game that he was losing?

Remember during the most difficult stretch of the season when injuries were at their worst and he went into Arrowhead and had a great game with all of the backups? Forcing OT before he never seeing the ball again?

The Atlanta game that was won multiple times before an awful fumble, a worse no call, and swiss cheese defense lost it in OT before the offense had a chance?

Easy ones off the top of my head. And yea I can also say that the defense made a huge play in OT of the Panthers game to get that win when the offense wasn’t great, or how bad they looked in the first half of game 17 with the playoffs on the line. I have no issue calling it like it is, good or bad. But also find it weird when Bucs fans refuse to give their QB an ounce of credit for playing the position really damn well. You can make the point that you don’t want to give him a massive contract without also diminishing every single thing he does well for the team you supposedly root for. It’s not that complicated.

A good portion of this never happened. Especially the Joey Bosa stuff. We killed the Chargers in the 2nd half.

[Backside]

Remember when Bucs had lost the lead and all momentum in Detroit and Baker totally took over and led the biggest TD drive of the day and got the W?

Remember when he held off Joey Bosa for multiple seconds and found a way to convert a fourth down on the last drive of a game that he was losing?

Remember during the most difficult stretch of the season when injuries were at their worst and he went into Arrowhead and had a great game with all of the backups? Forcing OT before he never seeing the ball again?

The Atlanta game that was won multiple times before an awful fumble, a worse no call, and swiss cheese defense lost it in OT before the offense had a chance?

Easy ones off the top of my head. And yea I can also say that the defense made a huge play in OT of the Panthers game to get that win when the offense wasn’t great, or how bad they looked in the first half of game 17 with the playoffs on the line. I have no issue calling it like it is, good or bad. But also find it weird when Bucs fans refuse to give their QB an ounce of credit for playing the position really damn well. You can make the point that you don’t want to give him a massive contract without also diminishing every single thing he does well for the team you supposedly root for. It’s not that complicated.

A good portion of this never happened. Especially the Joey Bosa stuff. We killed the Chargers in the 2nd half.

My bad, meant Nick Bosa and the Niners game

What else didn’t happen?

[Sooner06]

Teams win in different ways. How did the Bucs win?

The Bucs lost 7 games in 2024. Average ppg against in those losses was 30.42.

Is this time number 11, 12, I've lost count by now as how many times you prove my point, but still don't get it.

Yes, I know teams win in different way, I've made that point many times. It's why I keep saying that the team for most QB's are more important than the QB. It's also why I keep saying that you're better off paying the surrounding talent than the QB in those situations. You're still not going to get that though (I wonder if you'll get it when I put it in bigger text... I'm willing to bet "No").


Here's a list of teams that gave up 30 ppg in losses, last year....
Detroit Lions 34.00
Kansas City Chiefs 34.00
Cincinnati Bengals 33.88
Carolina Panthers 33.75
Dallas Cowboys 33.50
Seattle Seahawks 31.57
Buffalo Bills 31.25
Washington Commanders 31.00
Minnesota Vikings 30.67
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 30.43
Philadelphia Eagles 30.33

Out of those 11 teams, 8 had just as many losses as us, or less. What's the point you're making? Is this your justification that teams win in different ways? I mean, again, yeah... I KNOW - re-read what I just put in the prior paragraph.

I haven't bothered to look at any of the circumstances on that list, but I do know that KC only allowed 30 pts/gm in two games last year, and the second one was vs. DEN in Week 18, when KC didn't play any of their starters. So, really, KC gave up 30pts one time last year. which makes the list feel kind of disingenuous.

[Grahamburn]

And the Lions' two losses all year. 20 points against us and 48 against the Bills for an "average" of 34. Great "analysis." What's with this guy?

Our defense wasn't good. It's why we lost games. I could lay the SF and Baltimore games at the feet of the offense. Maybe.

[Bootz]

And the Lions' two losses all year. 20 points against us and 48 against the Bills for an "average" of 34. Great "analysis." What's with this guy?

Our defense wasn't good. It's why we lost games. I could lay the SF and Baltimore games at the feet of the offense. Maybe.

If you won a game scoring 20 points, you'd say your defense did something right, wouldn't you?

[Grahamburn]

And the Lions' two losses all year. 20 points against us and 48 against the Bills for an "average" of 34. Great "analysis." What's with this guy?

Our defense wasn't good. It's why we lost games. I could lay the SF and Baltimore games at the feet of the offense. Maybe.

If you won a game scoring 20 points, you'd say your defense did something right, wouldn't you?

Their defense played well in that game. As did ours. Our defense played well for a handful of games. The vast majority of the 8 losses can be laid at their feet though. The two mentioned above and the Denver game were poor offensive performances, but the defense also played poorly in all 3.

[Bootz]

A good portion of this never happened. Especially the Joey Bosa stuff. We killed the Chargers in the 2nd half.

My bad, meant Nick Bosa and the Niners game

What else didn’t happen?

Lost the lead and momentum in Detroit. It was 13-9 when Detroit scored a TD in the 3rd before we answered late in the 3rd. I'd hardly call a 4 point lead in the 3rd quarter having momentum. That game was a defensive battle more than anything our offense did.

Atlanta, a game can't be won until it's won. You start counting Ws before the clock hits 0:00, find another sport because the other team isn't gonna quit trying just because you say you've won. And you certainly can't win "multiple times".

Arrowhead with "all of the backups"? The only starters we were down that game were Evans & Godwin. McMillan hadn't done much of anything to that point in the season. He had played in 6 of 8 games and had amassed 10 catches for 109 yards & 1 TD in those 6 games. In fact, he was active the following week vs the 49ers and didnt even register a snap, with Evans still out. The Chiefs were without JJSS themselves due to injury and had just acquired Hopkins the week before. They were also without starting DL Michael Danna due to injury.

[Backside]

My bad, meant Nick Bosa and the Niners game

What else didn’t happen?

Lost the lead and momentum in Detroit. It was 13-9 when Detroit scored a TD in the 3rd before we answered late in the 3rd. I'd hardly call a 4 point lead in the 3rd quarter having momentum. That game was a defensive battle more than anything our offense did.

Atlanta, a game can't be won until it's won. You start counting Ws before the clock hits 0:00, find another sport because the other team isn't gonna quit trying just because you say you've won. And you certainly can't win "multiple times".

Arrowhead with "all of the backups"? The only starters we were down that game were Evans & Godwin. McMillan hadn't done much of anything to that point in the season. He had played in 6 of 8 games and had amassed 10 catches for 109 yards & 1 TD in those 6 games. In fact, he was active the following week vs the 49ers and didnt even register a snap, with Evans still out. The Chiefs were without JJSS themselves due to injury and had just acquired Hopkins the week before. They were also without starting DL Michael Danna due to injury.

You’re welcome to nitpick my use of incredibly common football phrases if you choose, it doesn’t change the point.

Getting an early lead in a huge game on that road and then losing that lead while the team starts to sputter certainly qualifies as losing momentum to me. You’re welcome to disagree, Baker leading a massive TD drive at a huge moment in the game doesn’t seem up for dispute.

Arrowhead without the top two WRs? Yea that’s pretty important. We had just lost the Ravens game and then the awful Falcons OT loss. Morale was at a season low around here at that point and most predicted a blowout. Newly acquired DHop who caught two TDs playing for the Chiefs only bolsters my point. Baker played well in tough circumstances in that game, do you disagree?

You’re right it wasn’t backup TEs I misremembered there. As I said it was off the top of my head so not everything was recalled perfectly. Baker playing well especially in critical moments and/or being let down by the defense was the point I was making overall and that seems to stand.

[Grahamburn]

My bad, meant Nick Bosa and the Niners game

What else didn’t happen?

Lost the lead and momentum in Detroit. It was 13-9 when Detroit scored a TD in the 3rd before we answered late in the 3rd. I'd hardly call a 4 point lead in the 3rd quarter having momentum. That game was a defensive battle more than anything our offense did.

Atlanta, a game can't be won until it's won. You start counting Ws before the clock hits 0:00, find another sport because the other team isn't gonna quit trying just because you say you've won. And you certainly can't win "multiple times".

Arrowhead with "all of the backups"? The only starters we were down that game were Evans & Godwin. McMillan hadn't done much of anything to that point in the season. He had played in 6 of 8 games and had amassed 10 catches for 109 yards & 1 TD in those 6 games. In fact, he was active the following week vs the 49ers and didnt even register a snap, with Evans still out. The Chiefs were without JJSS themselves due to injury and had just acquired Hopkins the week before. They were also without starting DL Michael Danna due to injury.

I think he's saying give the man some credit for leading a game tying drive (and likely game winning if the HC had some guts) while taking the defending champs to OT in their house in the rain in primetime without either of his top two weapons against an elite defense. Jalen Hurts and the eventual champion Eagles looked like they'd never played football before in week 4 against us without their top two wideouts.

Just acquired Hopkins the week before and low and behold we still couldn't cover him.

[Sooner06]

JJSS=washed

DHop went off in that game.

Danna is slightly better than average at his position.

[CannonFire]

Is this time number 11, 12, I've lost count by now as how many times you prove my point, but still don't get it.

Yes, I know teams win in different way, I've made that point many times. It's why I keep saying that the team for most QB's are more important than the QB. It's also why I keep saying that you're better off paying the surrounding talent than the QB in those situations. You're still not going to get that though (I wonder if you'll get it when I put it in bigger text... I'm willing to bet "No").


Here's a list of teams that gave up 30 ppg in losses, last year....
Detroit Lions 34.00
Kansas City Chiefs 34.00
Cincinnati Bengals 33.88
Carolina Panthers 33.75
Dallas Cowboys 33.50
Seattle Seahawks 31.57
Buffalo Bills 31.25
Washington Commanders 31.00
Minnesota Vikings 30.67
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 30.43
Philadelphia Eagles 30.33

Out of those 11 teams, 8 had just as many losses as us, or less. What's the point you're making? Is this your justification that teams win in different ways? I mean, again, yeah... I KNOW - re-read what I just put in the prior paragraph.

I haven't bothered to look at any of the circumstances on that list, but I do know that KC only allowed 30 pts/gm in two games last year, and the second one was vs. DEN in Week 18, when KC didn't play any of their starters. So, really, KC gave up 30pts one time last year. which makes the list feel kind of disingenuous.

He brought up the point about opponent scoring in losses, not me. I showed him where other teams were in the area as well. I asked him what his point was. I don't believe he has answered yet.

To note, in KC's 2 losses, they gave up at least 30 points in both of them... 30 and 38. We gave up at least 30 in 4 of our 7. Again, I have no idea what his point was. My guess is that we lose because of our defense gave up 30 points. We so did everyone else. Detroit gave up 30+ points or more 4 times, they lost 2 of them.

[Grahamburn]

I haven't bothered to look at any of the circumstances on that list, but I do know that KC only allowed 30 pts/gm in two games last year, and the second one was vs. DEN in Week 18, when KC didn't play any of their starters. So, really, KC gave up 30pts one time last year. which makes the list feel kind of disingenuous.

He brought up the point about opponent scoring in losses, not me. I showed him where other teams were in the area as well. I asked him what his point was. I don't believe he has answered yet.

How many games would you say the Bucs lost because of the defense in 2024? How many losses were because of Baker Mayfield's poor play?

I don't believe you'll answer.

[Bootz]

Lost the lead and momentum in Detroit. It was 13-9 when Detroit scored a TD in the 3rd before we answered late in the 3rd. I'd hardly call a 4 point lead in the 3rd quarter having momentum. That game was a defensive battle more than anything our offense did.

Atlanta, a game can't be won until it's won. You start counting Ws before the clock hits 0:00, find another sport because the other team isn't gonna quit trying just because you say you've won. And you certainly can't win "multiple times".

Arrowhead with "all of the backups"? The only starters we were down that game were Evans & Godwin. McMillan hadn't done much of anything to that point in the season. He had played in 6 of 8 games and had amassed 10 catches for 109 yards & 1 TD in those 6 games. In fact, he was active the following week vs the 49ers and didnt even register a snap, with Evans still out. The Chiefs were without JJSS themselves due to injury and had just acquired Hopkins the week before. They were also without starting DL Michael Danna due to injury.

You’re welcome to nitpick my use of incredibly common football phrases if you choose, it doesn’t change the point.

Getting an early lead in a huge game on that road and then losing that lead while the team starts to sputter certainly qualifies as losing momentum to me. You’re welcome to disagree, Baker leading a massive TD drive at a huge moment in the game doesn’t seem up for dispute.

Arrowhead without the top two WRs? Yea that’s pretty important. We had just lost the Ravens game and then the awful Falcons OT loss. Morale was at a season low around here at that point and most predicted a blowout. Newly acquired DHop who caught two TDs playing for the Chiefs only bolsters my point. Baker played well in tough circumstances in that game, do you disagree?

You’re right it wasn’t backup TEs I misremembered there. As I said it was off the top of my head so not everything was recalled perfectly. Baker playing well especially in critical moments and/or being let down by the defense was the point I was making overall and that seems to stand.

I dont disagree with you that he played well. However the details do matter, especially when you're trying to paint a picture. Like the awful Falcons OT loss was a full month before the Chiefs game, not after the Ravens loss. The Falcons loss you're referring to was at home, and we didn't play very well. Offense turned the ball over 4 times, the Falcons scored 14 points off those turnovers. In a 5 point game, that matters.

You can make a great point about Baker playing well without incorrect information. Again it's not necessary.

[Grahamburn]

I haven't bothered to look at any of the circumstances on that list, but I do know that KC only allowed 30 pts/gm in two games last year, and the second one was vs. DEN in Week 18, when KC didn't play any of their starters. So, really, KC gave up 30pts one time last year. which makes the list feel kind of disingenuous.

He brought up the point about opponent scoring in losses, not me. I showed him where other teams were in the area as well. I asked him what his point was. I don't believe he has answered yet.

To note, in KC's 2 losses, they gave up at least 30 points in both of them... 30 and 38. We gave up at least 30 in 4 of our 7. Again, I have no idea what his point was. My guess is that we lose because of our defense gave up 30 points. We so did everyone else. Detroit gave up 30+ points or more 4 times, they lost 2 of them.

Yeah. The numbers do bear out that way. I'd only considered Tampa's losses and not other teams. But, most teams were between 28-34 in points against in their losses. You are correct.

And, yes. The point was the Bucs lost because the defense couldn't force turnovers or get stops. Still true.

[Backside]

You’re welcome to nitpick my use of incredibly common football phrases if you choose, it doesn’t change the point.

Getting an early lead in a huge game on that road and then losing that lead while the team starts to sputter certainly qualifies as losing momentum to me. You’re welcome to disagree, Baker leading a massive TD drive at a huge moment in the game doesn’t seem up for dispute.

Arrowhead without the top two WRs? Yea that’s pretty important. We had just lost the Ravens game and then the awful Falcons OT loss. Morale was at a season low around here at that point and most predicted a blowout. Newly acquired DHop who caught two TDs playing for the Chiefs only bolsters my point. Baker played well in tough circumstances in that game, do you disagree?

You’re right it wasn’t backup TEs I misremembered there. As I said it was off the top of my head so not everything was recalled perfectly. Baker playing well especially in critical moments and/or being let down by the defense was the point I was making overall and that seems to stand.

I dont disagree with you that he played well. However the details do matter, especially when you're trying to paint a picture. Like the awful Falcons OT loss was a full month before the Chiefs game, not after the Ravens loss. The Falcons loss you're referring to was at home, and we didn't play very well. Offense turned the ball over 4 times, the Falcons scored 14 points off those turnovers. In a 5 point game, that matters.

You can make a great point about Baker playing well without incorrect information. Again it's not necessary.

Yes I appreciate you correcting my incorrect details. I was shooting from the hip as I said and prone to get some things wrong I wasn’t trying to be misleading to make my point. Glad we agree that Baker played well.

[Sdbucs]

The good:
Baker was the #6 PFF rated QB behind Lamar, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, and Daniels.
He threw the 2nd most TD passes behind only Joe Burrow. #2 in TD passes per attempt, 55% better than average.
Of QBs with 17 games played, Baker was #2 in completion % behind only Jared Goff. 9% better than average.
He was 17th in Sacks per pass attempt, better than Burrow, Herbert, Daniels, Hurts, to name a few. 3% better than average.
4th in passer rating. 14th in adjusted QBR. Personally not sure how these stats are derived.

The bad:
He tied Kirk Cousins for most Ints in the NFL. Baker was 7th in INT per pass attempt, or 28% worse than the average.


So he's throwing the most TDs at a high rate of completion. He's gotten better about avoiding sacks. He still throw's INTs at a high rate.

[Sooner06]

And the Lions' two losses all year. 20 points against us and 48 against the Bills for an "average" of 34. Great "analysis." What's with this guy?

Our defense wasn't good. It's why we lost games. I could lay the SF and Baltimore games at the feet of the offense. Maybe.

At one point last season the Bucs offense was averaging around 29pts/gm but the defense was giving up around 31pts/gm, iirc. not winning any games when that happens, regardless of who's your QB1. And I'm pretty sure that TB-D spent most of the season firmly near the bottom of the league as far as scoring. not really going to blame them or Bowles that much; injuries are what killed them more than anything.

I remember presser where Bowles said that at a certain point, he didn't have enough DBs to even call dime, and if he called nickel, that pretty much used all of his available DBs. Really hard to play defense when you don't have any DBs in a pass-happy league and you're forced to call base defense all the time, and it showed.

[Doctor]

And there it is. The immovable object.

It's because my point has never been about Mayfield himself. I swear, I think you people just don't read anything. That said, everything that Mayfield has done here, is more proof that I'm right than you. I'm graciously giving you an out. You're welcome.

Oh a read the rest. It's just more circular nonsense. That's what happens when you start with the (immovable) result and work backwards.

I don't change my opinion because I'm right.
Why? Because I know he's not special, he's not a difference maker.

Cannon "knows".
We'll be in the SB and he'll still "know it to be true".

[Sooner06]

I haven't bothered to look at any of the circumstances on that list, but I do know that KC only allowed 30 pts/gm in two games last year, and the second one was vs. DEN in Week 18, when KC didn't play any of their starters. So, really, KC gave up 30pts one time last year. which makes the list feel kind of disingenuous.

He brought up the point about opponent scoring in losses, not me. I showed him where other teams were in the area as well. I asked him what his point was. I don't believe he has answered yet.

To note, in KC's 2 losses, they gave up at least 30 points in both of them... 30 and 38. We gave up at least 30 in 4 of our 7. Again, I have no idea what his point was. My guess is that we lose because of our defense gave up 30 points. We so did everyone else. Detroit gave up 30+ points or more 4 times, they lost 2 of them.

i don't know how you count that Week 18 game against the Chiefs when none of the offensive/defensive starters actually played in that game. it's like counting a preseason scrimmage.

[Doctor]

If Baker can do that here though, how come he couldn't do that in Cleveland or Carolina?

More "the truly great QBs as destined for greatness regardless of anything" bs.

Maybe because it WAS Cleveland and Carolina? We debunked this stupid talking point at the start of the thread even before he blew up. The fact you keep bringing it up now reeks desperate.

[Sooner06]

If Baker can do that here though, how come he couldn't do that in Cleveland or Carolina?

This can't be a real question?

[Babeinbucland]